Hi, this is Wayne again with a topic “The Doom Eternal controversy is a MESS.”.
I don’t think you guys talked about the Doom, Eternal soundtrack thing right, because Linus asked me to put that in there, but I Anthony filled it out. So I don’t. I still don’t know. What’S going on with that, so I think I think it’s probably best to leave that to net next week. If Linus still wants to talk about it, unless you, I know everything about it. I know some things about it. This amount of notes is actually crazy.
Um. I have a large monitor it does not fit on the monitor Anthony. Does I think, screw around he.
Doesn’T he Dives in I like it um but yeah? I think I’m just gon na start reading through this. I know some of this, so I’m going to have opinions along the way but based on the amount of notes Here, I honestly don’t think I know all of this um Anthony says I did my best to cut this down, but this is a messy one. That’S totally legit, honestly, this being this long very likely makes a lot of sense and he intros it with bolded letters which we don’t normally do it’s important, don’t go after anyone. This is not an encouragement to harass. Anyone or anything, don’t do it. Please don’t do a single time that people say this and then people are like.
Oh, it’s a coded message to do it and then they do it anyways they screw with everything and make it worse, and it’s really freaking annoying. So stop don’t go after anyone seriously. What there is proper uh, I believe, there’s we’ll see, I think, there’s legal process happening with this right now, um yeah I mean let that code scores yeah, we’ll see.
Anyways you go ahead. Maternal is much anticipated. Soundtrack was released to little Acclaim in 2020 when it was discovered that the quality of the mixes were incredibly subpar.
Some of the many issues include Cuts between songs and sections, sometimes with overlap, but no fade, causing clicks and pops Tempo changes and just various gaps. Outcry surrounding this led to Mick disowning, the OST according to do maternal executive producer Marty Stratton on the r slash Doom subreddit shortly after release. I will add some context here.
The soundtrack for Doom, not Eternal, like the previous one, was amazing, fantastic and I believe it was made by the same person interesting moving forward in his lengthy post, this being Marty, Stratton uh, he devent he defended ID or ID software ID software and sound designer Chad, Moss holder, uh the main issue with the OST itself according to Stratton, was that ID didn’t have the original files to mix with leaving only the in-game files displaced together. It’S further claimed that Mick delivered less music than expected in time for the ost’s release, necessitating these splices Mick was said to have supervised Chad on a backup, OST and signed off on a combined work. Barney says that ID did absolutely nothing to prevent Mick from delivering on his commitments within the time frame.
He uh asked for the harassment faced by ID, he said was a result of comments made by Mick who had since done 45, nothing to change the conversations. This is a lot of names. Good luck following it! The ultimate ending of this is going to be if you’re interested you’re going to dive into it yourself, yeah, Mick and Nick, I think there’s a mick and a Nick, oh my gosh, I think so.
Am I wrong and ID no it’s Mick and Marty. Oh Marty, yeah I’ll start with M, which I think is going to get Nick and Marty but anyways at the end of all this, maybe they’ll still open up a pasta shop together, um you don’t eat there. You just go and buy pasta and take it home.
Okay, continue, foreign very recently, Mick Gordon posted a very long, very detailed rebuttal in the post, prompted by damage to his professional reputation. Mick provides evidence that highlights the extreme crunch. He was expected to work through being asked to write music before Aries of the game was created, often resulting in music that did not fit and had to be remade having the OST announced, while no contract was in place to produce it expectation of a new track.
Every two weeks, regardless of whether previous tracks have been rejected or had to be redone due to changes in design, that’s a huge issue, an extreme push to meet the original November 2022 2019 release date, threats of lawsuits during arguments over contractual demands and not being paid For 11 months, while this was happening, whoa the heck – I didn’t know that part for the OST Mick says his interaction with Chad was minimal and he never heard the final product before release metadata provided by Chad showed the OST was being made without him. For six months before he was contracted to do it after it was delayed, but without him as in, I think Nick I don’t know um according to Mick. It definitely did have the original source files, but they didn’t mix them properly when it did release, meaning the game game. I think several demo tracks were rejected and thus not paid for uh.
Several demo checks several demo tracks that were rejected and thus were not paid for because they were rejected were included in the OST, which is not cool. That no nick says that if he had acted, the way Marty says Bethesda would have add the right to not pay him um. What they did, including an on-time bonus. Okay mix suggests that the real reason the osc was rushed was because of legal issues surrounding pre-order bonuses and consumer protection laws prior to Marty’s post Mick says that Marty hadn’t had instructed him to not holy crap hello. I can’t follow this yeah.
There’S too many names. I don’t know if I’m just like brain frog from being sick, but I’m reading this out myself. I know honestly move Twitter, okay, anyways, there’s a lot of uh.
He said she said um moral. The story is, don’t do or request contract work without a rock solid contract there we just aren’t employees and always keep receipts. This is these are good points. Um discussion question we’ve heard of crunch in the games industry before we were literally talking about it before the stream uh, but mostly in respect to employees, not contractors.
How much of this is a. I don’t know if that’s true, it’s definitely both always uh. How much of this is a systemic problem, and how much of this is due to the Dynamics of management versus contractor? I think it’s absolutely both how many interactions like this happen that aren’t high profile and never get properly resolved and who gets the short end of the stick. That’S a lot of discussion. I will say that, like you know, one of the only things that I think I can say about this is, I think, in the games industry, particularly, there seems to be a problem with uh having a lot of this type of conflict in the happen. In the background – and it only really comes out um, you know when, when there’s like a big giant, uh online Fiasco Fiasco about it. I feel like when it comes to other Industries, maybe like movies um. You know this stuff is more likely to emerge, as people are kind of like talking about it, uh in the open a little bit more, but with this it’s like.
Oh, we found out after the fact that all of these employees from these game studios have been completely uh. I mean I will say that like when it comes to like visual effects and other things like there have been similar uh. You know uh scandals in in other Industries. It just seems that, like it seems that this is a gut feeling that in the games industry, it seems like this stuff seems to be swept under the rug, a bit more um, which is not good, yeah um.
I think a lot of people just swallow the pill that they’re working in the games industry so they’ll deal with it right, um, because there’s this belief in crunch. It’S like a cultural thing, almost depending now, whether it’s it’s changing, but it’s also a very difficult thing, because games are often not always obviously, but games are often especially this one. I would include in there very complicated systems that would be worked on by a huge variety of teams, and those teams are going to have different delays. And then the ability for other teams to be able to progress in their work is going to lean on the uh, a different team, achieving their goal. So if team a has a delay that delays team B’s ability to work on something, so a lot of these delays will Cascade into even more delays and it becomes. Software development is already a situation where it’s it’s nigh impossible to make accurate timeline estimations of how long it’s going to take you to do something you can make very educated guesses. Then you can run into problems that there was no way you could have foreseen back in just wreck everything right uh. Some people are also oh good, there’s also a huge chance for scope changes.
This is a huge problem in the gaming industry. Um something will happen. Uh, like remember when Battle Royale is just like blew up, and every game in development was like.
Oh wait. We need a battle royale. Oh my goodness, um, that’s a pretty major scope change, for example um, but yeah it can be.
It can be really rough. Also gamers, oh yeah, I mean not the greatest audience to have in the scenario yeah yeah I mean they’re gon na be pissed about crunch. But then, if your game is late, you’re, the worst person on the planet, so it’s like ah and I will say to validate what you’re saying about Twitter earlier like it definitely seems like you know: uh gamers are online more so than you know, fans of other Entertainment mediums uh, you know I, I don’t think that you’re getting like you know with movies and stuff you have people like backlash but like with games. It’S like every little game that is able to have a Twitter account and post updates is, is liable to be swarmed by people who are unhappy with decisions they make um less. So for like smaller movies and whatnot, so because they’re very, very loud um, they will complain about things very quickly and very intensely um, but they absolutely refuse to vote with their wallet. They will review bomb things.
They’Ll do all this other kind of stuff. The one of my favorite things to see is where people will catch people in screenshots, where they have review bombed, something and then bought it afterwards. Um they’re, like people who will be like, I will never buy this thing and then you can see it’s like in their account, so they clearly did buy it.
It’S like that’s, that’s gamers, in my opinion, yeah. They will scream about something. They’Ll say it’s the worst.
Most vile thing ever and then they’ll buy it and buy all the DLC and buy all the optional skins and spend every dollar they possibly can on the game. I will say that, like you know, I’m on a I’m on a movie podcast, so I feel the need I I get. I I empathize with the need to kind of like play what other people are playing and like. Oh, this game just came out everyone’s talking about it. I need to play it because I need to have a take so that I can post about it or talk about it on Discord or whatever and like like you know, you know I don’t want to have to avoid spoilers, there’s all sorts of things, so I Empathize with that thing, because on a movie podcast, you got to keep up with. What’S going on, you got ta watch the the new movie, but at the same time, after having a kid, I uh have way less time to uh keep up with things so uh. I I I’ve never really been good at playing like the super new new game, but even less so now, and I feel like, if you allow yourself to to kind of get rid of that, need to like play every game when it comes out so that you Can be take part in the in the whatever you call it. I mean dog piling on people online uh, it’s it’s actually pretty cool. If you just kind of chill out and you’re like I, I can play some of these 300 games in my steam Library.
I don’t need to keep buying things. You know yeah minimalism, yeah, um come on guys. The other thing that I wanted to mention real quick is that people were posting in the in the chat is Tech unions.
It’S our uh unions in games is like it’s. It’S starting to change, but there’s not a whole lot of worker protections because there’s so much contract, work and stuff, and we kind of alluded to that earlier, anyways. That’S all! So! That’S that’s! What I was saying, too, is like there was the discussion question but, like we hear about it with employees, but not contractors right, there’s a huge amount of contractors to gain development space. You probably don’t realize they’re, not employees, right um, but yeah. It’S totally a thing. Okay, let’s move on .